My comments on Prof. Narlikar Lecture on "The Role of Science and Scientific outlook in shaping our Society"



From ysrao@disha.csre.iitb.ac.in Wed Nov 5 00:54:48 1997
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 00:50:52 +0530 (IST)
From: "Dr. Y.S.Rao"
To: jvn@iucaa.ernet.in
Subject: Your lectures on Radio, Mumbai


Dear Sir,

I listen to your Sardar Vallabhai Patel memorial lecture on "The role of Science and Scientific outlook in shaping our society" on All India Radio, Mumbai with great interest. It was transmitted on October 30 and 31st as a first and second lectures respectively. I could listen to your first lecture at the end because I did not know information about radio programs in advance. However, I could listen to your second lecture completely with great attention. I immediately recollected you with Noble laureate Prof. S. Chandrasekar who came to TIFR for giving a lecture on black holes a few years ago. After his lecture I met him for his autograph and told him "Sir! I am working on your radiative transfer theory for my Ph.D". Then he joked at me and said "not black holes". Your were also with him at that time. I life long remember the above three words, his way of giving lectures with full concentration, simple and smiling nature. Even dull person after meeting him will become a great scientist. While listening to your lecture on radio, I felt as if Prof. Chandrasekar is giving.

Coming to main point i.e about your lecture, I can not add anything more to your great lecture but I can give my own views. As a scientist I also blamed some blind faiths such as: not to buy, not to start, not to construct without proper timings and rules. After my association with great gurus say Jagatgurus in spiritual fields and my own experiences, I changed my mind. I also felt that spirituality starts where science ends. Bodily dirt can be cleaned with water and soap. What way can we clean the dirt of our mind? Because our scientific minds are confined to material things and could not see more than that. Dr. Rajaramanna after meeting Kanchipuram Sankaracharya (1984-1994) said, "Physicists have wondered if there is a direct interaction between two conscious human beings without the aid of the sense organs. I believe I have some verification of possibility." His article entitled "A dialogue with Pontiff: The light that Dispels ignorance," was published in Bhavans Journal, Vol 31, No.21, June 1-15, 1985, pp33-43. You may know that His holiness is revered as walking GOD in South India (He never took any vehicle in his life time).

I always suspect that how offerings in terms of mantras and food goes to dead persons say fathers and forefathers. When I was in ashram after my M.Sc., one person came with his wife. She possessed a spirit. She said that she was not given offerings in this year. The story is that in one house, one young child committed suicide due to her husband. She committed suicide by jumping into a well. Her father usually offers every year food and mantras on death anniversary day. One year he did not offer due to some problem. She possessed a lady servant in her house and wept through her. The lady servant's husband brought to my Master who is the disciple of Kanchipuram Sankaracharya. My Master studied M.A. Mathematics and a great yogi also. He is expert in Hottayoga (Khecheri). He is so sensitive that he could see spirits and tell me that she sat on coconut tree and weeping. She went here and there. As a Scientist, you and I feel that it is a bogus. We will encountered so many gurus showing their miracles in public to get name and fame. They are not at all Jagadgurus. The real Guru is he who can know our feature and past and able to change our destiny. When I referred to sastras about how the water and food goes to our dead ancestors, I got the following material. Like exchange banks which convert our rupees into the currencies of other countries, the offered food will be converted and taken by Pithru Devatas to our dead ancestors who were born in any place or in any form. In case they born as cow, the offered food will go to them in terms of grass.

Coming to destiny as you mentioned in your lecture in terms of Astrology, I will write here an interesting story about great Mathematician Bhaskaracharya who lived here some 800 years ago. There was an incident in his life to illustrate the point that, however, much we may use our intelligence, destiny will prevail. He had a daughter by the name of Leelavati. Bhaskaracharya, being a great astrologer and astronomer realised that the girl was destined to be a widow soon after her marriage. He thought that if he could marry his daughter at a time when the planetary position was so favorable as to ensure a long conjugal life, he could alter the fate of his daughter. He accordingly fixed a time and date when the planets were in such favorable condition. In those days, unlike now, there were no clocks to show time. The water pot was then used as Ghatika or the modern Ghatikaara (Clock). The vessel was divided into two parts the upper and the lower. Water from the top portion would drip into the lower part through a small aperture. The lower part will have calibrations marked as on a medicine bottle. The level of water will be used to calculate time. Each mark thereon will indicate time equal to 1/60 of day. The unit of time is called Ghatika (derived from the work Ghata or pot). A Ghatika is equal to 24 minutes. As was the custom in those days, the marriage of Leelavati was fixed when she was still a child. The child came near the aforesaid water pot and did some mischief. In the process, a small pearl from her nose ornament got loose and fell into the aperture between the two portions of the Ghatika, which let the water drip. As a result, the size of the drip became smaller.

So, when the restricted water supply reached the mark which had been made to indicate the favorable planetary position, that time had long passed and the next 'Lagna (time)' had come which was not auspicious. Since Leelavati was married at the bad Muhoorta or time, she lost her husband at a very tender age, and the prediction in her horoscope came true.

No one, including the child, had noted at that time the pearl dropping into the water plot. But when subsequently this was known, it was too late, the marriage had already taken place and it was accepted that the destiny is difficult to change. Later, Bhaskaracharya wanted to write a treatise on mathematics. He chose his daughter's name as the title of that book. He made his daughter, who had became a child widow, qualify as a high-ranking mathematician and named his book after her. This book contains various aspects of mathematics such as arithmetic, Vyaktha Ganita, Beeja Ganita, etc. To assist in the determination of the planetary positions and their movements, he wrote a book called "Siddhaanta Shiromani".

On solar eclipse, you might have got reservation from Allahabad to Mumbai very easily because many people never travel on this day thinking that it is bad time. On this day, people take bath after eclipse. Now scientific community is giving warnings on eclipse day not to venture to see Sun that may cause partial or complete blindness. Taking bath after eclipse will reduce radiation effect on our body. What our people follow from thousands of years is indirectly with scientific way. But many people do not know this truth. It may not be necessary for every one to know science behind our customs.

Regarding blind faith, I will say a small story. One family has an habit of growing a cat. In that family some one died. At the time of offerings on account of death, the cat was binded with rope, not to allow to eat the offered food. The same is continued for many years. Later the cat was dead. You will surprise to know that the family got an habit of bringing a new cat for every offering ceremony of their father/forefather and tied it with rope during the offering ceremony. This way blind faith comes to our society due to habit.

I feel your second lecture is some what unbalanced by blaming those who believe in superstitions. If your time permits, please read the following books which is available in a few shops.

  1. A search in secret India, 1934, by Dr. Paul Brunton. Rs.75/-, pages 321.

  2. A search in secret Egypt, 1935, by Dr. Paul Brunton.Rs.60/-, pages 294 ( Reprinted books of 1996, 1992 are available)

  3. On the road to freedom: A pilgrimage to India by Neal Rosener, 1987 Cassandra Press, Boulder CO. $9.95.
    Also available with some Kerala Mata Amrutanandamai math for Rs.100/-.

Books 1 and 2 are B.I. publications. Dr. Paul Brunton, on the advise of Kanchi Kamakoti Chandrasekara Saraswati Swamiji, had become disciple of Ramana Maharushi and spent long time in Ramanashram. He also met wife of Ramakrishna Paramahansa and several Yogis from lower order to higher order.

In Egypt book, you will surprise after reading a Doctor's miracles. The Doctor is well educated like us and did a lot of miracles. The Doctor explains all in scientific way. He was kept in 22 hours in water and also buried for several months. Big swords were penetrated from one side two other side in his chest. He said all the above feats were done through scientifically controlling breath and increasing blood flow. He kept big tongue inside a small tongue and stops breath. This is known is Hattayoga or Khecheri. The above books can give you more info than what I write.

Sir, I wrote a big letter as your student. I hope you appreciate it. My Master also mentions your name while referring big scientist names. I feel I have fortunate to write this big letter to a big scientist. If I wrote any thing wrongly and too much, please pardon me. I accept your valuable comments. But I afraid for your time.

with your blessings

Yours student

Y.S.Rao


Narlikar's Reply

From jvn@iucaa.ernet.in Wed Nov 5 00:55:15 1997
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:47:10 -0500 (GMT)
From: J V Narlikar
To: "Dr. Y.S.Rao"
Cc: Narlikar Jayant
Subject: Re: Your lectures in Radio, Mumbai
Dear Dr Rao,

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences with me and giving me a feedback on my Sardar Patel Memorial Lectures.

Best regards.

Jayant Narlikar


Professor J.V. Narlikar
Director, Inter-University Centre for Astronomy & Astrophysics
Ganeshkhind, Post Bag 4, Pune 411 007, INDIA

Ph - 91-212-351414 and 359415
Fax - 91-212-356417
E-mail- jvn@iucaa.ernet.in